Note: I do not generally react as follows, as I'm of the opinion that everyone should make their own decisions and face whatever consequences, but this was a random reaction. Teehee

So one night, I'm in a online msn conference with a few different people of a pack. We somehow or other get on the subject of astral travel after adding a new guy to the conversation, because me and female were talking of writing. Anyway One of the females in the group asks what is astral travel. The new guy replies it's a space between space. And it wasn't a complicated thing to do, it was just like falling asleep.

Whereupon afterwards, he begins to take her through the steps to fall into the astral world. Now I would not have cared, except for one thing, she didn't even know what the astral world was and I really didn't think that she should be taught to go into the astral plane if she didn't even know properly what it was. She was learning to just awaken, still discovering what she was.

I was going to say something, but I decided not to interfere, when I just got talked over and basically told I worried too much. Then the so called alpha, came to me and was like what's wrong? I'm like I really don't think that she should be taught to go into the astral world if she doesn't even know the dangers of it, that could be there, but I'm not part of that pack so I'm not going to say anything. The so called alpha was like well then don't and was like sorry alpha coming through. I'm like I don't care, if you're an alpha you're supposed to take care of the members of your pack or your friends, or at least make sure they're taught correctly.

Afterawhile, he starts siding with me, on realizing that he should've been the one to at least mention or make sure she was informed fully of what she was getting into before being taught how to enter the astral plane. So we join the conference again, and I make a comment and new guy is like where you been and I said ranting at your alpha for letting her go into astral plane without at least telling her what she was getting into first.

This starts an entire discussion, and I'm like I'm not trying to cause drama, but I really think she should've just been informed, more than astral plane is more than a space between a space and absolutely no harm will come to her so long as she thinks positive and with love. I did admit it was her decision and if she was curious she should have asked more about what she was getting into before trying it. But at the same time, I was like as the teacher the new guy should've gave her both good and bad. He said I was thinking pessimistic and was why he led her into it and not me. Finally she asked did she do something wrong and I explained to her, that I just thought she should've gotten full disclosure on going into astral plane, before being taught how to go in there. She was like well what didn't she know? I was like she shouldn't have to ask that question if she was even taught semi right. The new guy tried to call it ignorance and fear, and she was like she understood where I was coming from and that it wasn't fear that was driving my caution but her lack of experience. Cause if she tried it on her own thinking it was all safe, no harm would befall her, she could've gotten into a situation or something else could've gone wrong and there'd be noone to help protect her, till she could break free of that plane. In layman's terms anyway. The guy was more or less like whatever and signed out and things settled after that.

It left me wondering again, about the last conversation I started about when to interfere, and more importantly if you were going to teach a person who knew absolutely nothing about the astral plane or energy except the basics, wouldn't you agree to inform her fully first before teaching her how to get into it, or think I was simply overreacting?

I was aware I was overreacting just a bit, though it was more for lack of communication than concern for the issue at hand. Heh

i understand why you reacted the way you did given all your experiences with the astral..but i dont think your basic point was over reacting...if i knew how to enter the astral and was teaching someone else ofcourse i would make sure they know all the dangers...its all about making an informed decision...i myself havent done astral travel partly out of fear and i would never dream of going it alone or jumping into it without being fully informed...to simply say it is a "space between space" is a gross understatement/misinformation...its way more!

I don't think you overreacted at all either and I honestly doubt the guy informing her knows the slightest bit about astral travel from personal experience.

I've personally only travelled to the "space between space" :p once so I'm hardly an expert but the mention of lovey lighty defenses like: "think positive" or "surround yourself with love" are a typical new age phenomen based on utter ignorance and unacceptance towards facing reality. More likely, if that guy has gone anywhere he would be going to a self-created bubble ... of course I'm not sure the astral isn't a bunch of self-created bubbles.

Either way, I think it was good for you to inform that girl there are many, contradictory sources of information regarding the astral, not necessarily equally accurate but still worth knowing. And I think it was very brave of you to do it infront of everyone else ... even though maybe the wording could have been a little more diplomatic.

It'll be up to her to choose her path now and either use or disregard the information you've given.

*goes back to supressing old urges to bash ignorance out of pack people now*

Well the ending result was, the girl promised that she'd not go to astral plane without further researching and learning and if possible with a buddy till she got more experience. I was slightly proud of her for realizing why I was slightly growly about it and knowing the proper steps to take to make sure she kept herself safe or within her own self bubble.

I do think that the astral world is a lot of self created bubbles that overlap in most areas of the astral plane, but having had experiences and knowing of other equally unsettling experiences, left me going you can't just let her go in there without informing her of both good and bad.

I could have been a bit more diplomatic, but really I actually didn't plan to say anything. not until I had two people putting me down and calling me pessimistic and all that, then I got more irritated and felt a need to justify my reasoning behind not being supportive of what was going on. Not to mention, there was about like 6 people talking at once, and I was responding individually to each, then addressing the whole heh. That's why I said, it was more lack of communication.

*Gives zan a bouncy ball to work out old urges*

I don't usually hang with pack people, just lately seem to get drawn into these conversations, upon which people do things and either I hold back and want to swat em with a ruler or say something if it's worth the breath or typing. heh

Then again, some people don't deserve to be taught about the spirits and the astral. Let them fill their minds with the hogwash they read or see on television, they are safer and happier that way. Spiritual presence is a responsibility, sometimes a burden. It takes waaaaay too much time to get it under control to the point of it being more of an asset than a danger. I stand by you nightwolf. You were in the right. Not enough information can be very dangerous. Alas a pack follows the Alpha. Just like all groups, sometimes you have good leaders and sometimes you have bad ones. I don't have a problem with packs. I have the blessing to know a few decent ones led by people whom I trust. Its not for me though, I would rather teach and heal. True joy comes from helping others help themselves.

I am curious as to your prejudices you hinted about Zan.

i dont really know how i feel about packs only that i have this extreme opposition to being ordered around so i wouldnt really take to being in a pack...thankfully i'm not an angelic because i wouldnt make a good one of those either lol...as for packs in general, i guess as long as the members dont follow mindlessly its ok...but its kind of irritating if a leader is in the wrong and pack people follow anyway

*sticks a halo on rose as he walks by whistling*

My prejudices I hinted at? Afraid I'm not following ...

Your old urges to bash pack people. I was curious as to whether you have had a certain negative experience that has affected you so or what. Just being curious. Its part of my charm.

Oh that .. I don't have urges to bash pack people, only ignorant people who pretend or think they know a lot and spread that 'knowledge' generously. They're just pack people in this particular case.

It's like Rose said: It's kind of irritating if a leader is in the wrong and people follow anyways.

Seen it happen several times before in the otherkin/spiritual online world and often in far exaggerated forms than this case. God-complexes, delusional leaders, uber power claimers, etc. They're not uncommon and the worst thing is that most people who are just awakening into the spiritual reality, usually younger people, are very sensitive to their influence. Those people lack the personal experience to distinguish a realistic approach from a fantasy-soaked story. Not that the last don't have their purpose, I love reading fantasy. Either way, newly awakened kin or whatnot are easily led astray and that usually leads to no good. Either they disregard their awakening completely after finding out most of it was a lie (which maybe wouldn't have happened with decent down-to-earth guidance) or they're turned into copies of their leaders and often turn into genuine mental cases.

So hence the urge to bash some sense and realisation of what they're doing into those people. Good thing this is the online world and I still have plenty of restraints ... as well as a bouncy ball now.

*bounce*

*bounce*

*bouncebouncebounce*

*swoops in an takes the bouncy ball and then bounces it on zans head* eee fun

as for the rest...its really sad when that happens to newly awakened kin..without proper guidance

*watches bouncy ball action in amusement*

*nods* That's why I'm half inclined to say something and other times I just keep quiet. Cause some newly awakened would rather follow the idiotic people who couldn't tell a real therian or otherkin from a roleplayer if it was life or death.

Not to mention I've met a few newly awakened kin who look and look and only find fake and so always like when they meet the real people, they're like how do you tell who are fake and who are real? I'm like that sucks.

But I digress. I do say something, if I know someone is generally interested and clueless and asking for guidance, and if they don't buy into the same alpha so I'll follow routine, I'll answer their questions with little knowledge I have and encourage them to go research and stuff.

*catches bouncy ball in his mouth*

mmhbmlhmhmmnm .. hmmpfff

*spits the ball out*

My ball, go get your own! Neh.

Yes. You have damned good point. And a damned nice ball. How about this though? *tosses hacky sack toward zan's feet* I usually find this more entertaining. HACK CIRCLE!

*tries to juggle the hacky sack with his feet but miserably fails*

Never been good at this stuff ...

*Catches hacky sack and passes it back to yetaro* Teehee

In Job corps there were only so many things one could do, smoke, play hacky sack, or pool. I like hacky sack, though not overly good, and became a fan of pool ^_^

As I'm sure some have been faced with this, what are your guidelines or rather how do you go about teaching or rather answering questions when someone asks you to suddenly teach an entire group of what you know? Do you start out immediately diplomatic, or do you share experiences? Etc.